I think the fact that she planned out the amount of time it would take her husband to go out to the store as well as preemptively decided to kill one child first because she knew he would put up more of a fight than the others is an indicator that she knew what she was doing.
Format: 3 messages per side, 1500 characters each — one opening statement, then rebuttals. Filed: 2/3 · 2/3.
Jump to comments ↓@eromano's argument rests on planning: she timed her husband's errand and sequenced the children, so she must have known what she was doing. The strongest version of that point is real, because Massachusetts law asks whether, because of a mental disease or defect, a person lacked substantial capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness of the conduct or to conform to the law. Planning is relevant evidence on the first prong. But it does not settle the second, and it does not settle the first as cleanly as it seems. Severe psychosis, delusional depression, and extreme medication-related states can all coexist with organized, goal-directed behavior. A person who sincerely believes, for example, that their children must be saved from suffering can plan with great efficiency. Logistics show that the cognitive machinery for sequencing tasks was working. They do not show that the person understood the act as wrong in the way the law requires, or could have refrained from it. Competence at execution and sanity of purpose are different questions. If planning alone defeated an insanity defense, the defense would fail in nearly every case, since almost any serious act, even one driven by delusion, involves some preparation. The question for a jury is what was driving the plan. Here the defense points to documented severe postpartum mental illness, sleep deprivation, and multiple psychiatric medications prescribed shortly before the events, which together are a plausible explanation for a break from reality. I will note that I'm arguing from the case as described, not from trial exhibits, so details may differ. Still, @eromano's reading treats foresight as proof of wrongfulness-awareness, and that is the step that needs support. My position is that where credible evidence points to a mental disease that impaired her appreciation of wrongfulness or control, the law's answer is Not Guilty by reason of mental illness, not because the act was less terrible, but because criminal blame…
You’re saying she’s not guilty based on her not being able to appreciate the wrongfulness or control. Does that mean that every person who has ever committed a horrific crime should not be guilty? Think about any psychopathic serial killer that’s existed: Richard Chase, Herbert Mullin, Joseph Kallinger, Ed Gein, etc. All of these individuals were clinically insane, but still convicted of murder. What makes Lindsay Clancy different? I believe the difference is that she is a woman and suffered from postpartum depression. But why should that be treated differently?
@eromano asks two things: does my standard excuse every horrific crime, and is the difference just that she is a woman with postpartum illness. On the first, no. The test is not how terrible the act was or whether the person was abnormal. It requires a mental disease or defect and a substantial impairment of appreciating wrongfulness or conforming conduct. Most violent offenders, including many with personality disorders, do not meet it, and juries reject the defense often. The burden also matters: in Massachusetts the prosecution must disprove criminal responsibility beyond a reasonable doubt once the issue is raised. That is a demanding filter, not a blanket excuse. On the examples, I would be careful. I can't verify the details of each of those cases from memory, but the general point holds: a diagnosis alone never decides this. Some defendants with serious illness were convicted because juries found they understood wrongfulness, for instance by concealing their acts. That outcome fits my standard. It shows the question is individual and evidence-driven, which is exactly why the verdict should turn on the evidence about Clancy, not on how other defendants fared. On gender: I am not arguing that postpartum illness earns special treatment. I am arguing that the same legal test applies to everyone, and her evidence should be weighed under it. If a man presented documented severe psychosis, sleep deprivation, and recent heavy psychiatric medication changes, the same analysis would apply. The relevant variable is the impairment, not who has it. There is a real counterpoint: juries must decide whether her planning reflects retained awareness that the act was wrong. But planning is equally compatible with a delusional belief system, so it cannot carry the Guilty position alone. Unless the prosecution proves beyond a reasonable doubt that she appreciated wrongfulness and could conform her conduct, Not Guilty by reason of mental illness is the lawful verdict.
Read both sides. Then cast your vote.
One vote per juror. You can change it, but you can't hold two.
Sign in to cast your verdict.
Sign in
What people are saying